tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post2788730252229010912..comments2024-03-29T07:17:26.082+00:00Comments on Tandleman's Beer Blog: Cask IS Craft Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-50093686610796129162012-10-09T16:54:05.653+01:002012-10-09T16:54:05.653+01:00Thanks for sharing , This is an interesting point,...Thanks for sharing , This is an interesting point, I also like the term artisanal, suggests a bit of thought behind the beer, not just following what everyone else is doing.I've got fond memories of Edge, which was a session-strength cask-conditioned dark mild - and a very nice one. Long gone now, of course. Kids these days.windows 7, office 2010 on www.getsoftwarekey.comAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06788271851240475218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-73758170247416285162012-10-04T12:40:01.562+01:002012-10-04T12:40:01.562+01:00"I don't like RAIB as a term."
In r...<i>"I don't like RAIB as a term."</i><br /><br />In retrospect, CAMRA was wrong to view bottle-conditioned as a direct equivalent to cask-conditioned, although at the time it was largely irrelevant. Bottle-conditioning had largely died out well before cask-conditioning for very good reasons, and today, while the category does include some excellent beers, RAIB ends up being used as a badge for a lot of utter dreck.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-4154976979160238772012-10-04T00:13:22.295+01:002012-10-04T00:13:22.295+01:00I think the US definition is crucial, though, beca...I think the US definition is crucial, though, because it's the only definition there is. The original UK 'craft' enthusiasts took the name without bothering to think about how it would be defined, and so you got the mess... er, situation... we're in now, where 'craft beer' is basically whatever 'craft beer drinkers' drink.Phil Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05328292577477440272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-71026766792112281882012-10-03T19:59:05.555+01:002012-10-03T19:59:05.555+01:00This is really why people should forget the US whe...This is really why people should forget the US when thinking of craft beer in the UK.<br /><br />I can't really think of real ale as being anything other than cask. I don't like RAIB as a term.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-54973054303117858642012-10-03T19:52:52.992+01:002012-10-03T19:52:52.992+01:00translated to the UK that would probably rule out ...<i>translated to the UK that would probably rule out Sharps, York and no doubt several others</i><br /><br />Re: Sharps, yes, that was exactly why I quoted it. The definition doesn't work in the UK, so the label is left floating around waiting for somebody to define it. <br /><br />As for York, in any case, given the long history of breweries owning a string of pubs, to disqualify a brewery because it's part-owned by a pub company would be taking purism a bit far!<br /><br /><i>Sadly, CAMRA seems to be drifting away from promoting real ale per se to just promoting cask beer in pubs.</i><br /><br />Some would say that real ale <b>is</b> cask beer (which is almost invariably served in pubs), and I'm not sure I'd disagree with them.Phil Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05328292577477440272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-68777720477735582842012-10-03T16:31:54.846+01:002012-10-03T16:31:54.846+01:00I've followed this thread since yesterday but ...I've followed this thread since yesterday but it struck me that something was being missed. I've just realsied what it was - surely the epitome of a craft brewery in the average person's eyes would be Donnington?<br /><br />The US craft brewery definition is not as simple as just output (see craftbeer.com). Less that 25% of a craft brewery can be controlled by a firm in the industry that is not a craft brewer, so translated to the UK that would probably rule out Sharps, York and no doubt several others. There are also requirements that the largest brand (or at least 50% of all volume) should be all-malt beers.<br /><br />I was also interested to see a prominent link to the American Homebrewers website. I didn't find anything comparable on the CAMRA website, which is unfortunate because with more and more beer being drunk at home CAMRA should place much more emphasis on polypins (potentially deliverable by the people who do crates of wine) and home brew. I don't think RAIB is the way to go given comments I hear about quality.<br /><br />This is relevant since surely home brewing very definitely produces craft beer, yet seems to be forgotten in these discussions.<br /><br />Sadly, CAMRA seems to be drifting away from promoting real ale per se to just promoting cask beer in pubs. I suspect that the survivors of the 1000 brewers will be ones who can develop new markets, whther cask or keg (see the kegerators on craftbeer.com, designed to go in your kitchen).Ian Wordennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-35865727863420380392012-10-03T11:52:24.694+01:002012-10-03T11:52:24.694+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Erlangernickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09564871714656285737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-24498203255215763192012-10-03T11:52:24.133+01:002012-10-03T11:52:24.133+01:00Before the barrel-aging thing blew up, cask was th...Before the barrel-aging thing blew up, cask was the *epitome* of what-the-kids-call-craft in the US. To make an *ale* and then put it in a *cask* and serve it through a *handpump*??? How awesome!Erlangernickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09564871714656285737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-29802786775650310412012-10-03T09:29:22.029+01:002012-10-03T09:29:22.029+01:00Funny old world.Funny old world.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-66510151542446351552012-10-03T09:26:40.113+01:002012-10-03T09:26:40.113+01:00I'm just back from a craft beer festival in Ca...I'm just back from a craft beer festival in Canada. About 90% of the beers on offer were cask-conditioned. Not sure what that tells us.<br /><br />Boston Beer Company (Sam Adams) produces far more beer than Marstons yet is considered craft. Personally, I'd take cask Pedigree over any of their beers.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-25505006731646267922012-10-03T08:05:50.494+01:002012-10-03T08:05:50.494+01:00I'll be going round it again on Friday. Will l...I'll be going round it again on Friday. Will let you know Kieran.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-88833567940110250712012-10-03T07:27:13.003+01:002012-10-03T07:27:13.003+01:00How is that Mulberry Bush looking? How is that Mulberry Bush looking? Kieran Haslett-Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04562970144894398803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-1669650999616267322012-10-02T20:30:40.569+01:002012-10-02T20:30:40.569+01:00How about the definition "trainee tramps piss...How about the definition "trainee tramps piss"<br /><br />The logic being it is invariably extreme beer in regards to abv & hop content. The high abv is slowly turning the crafterati into alkies with only themselves not noticing their personal decline. The typical crafterati being about 2 years away from park benches and cans of spesh.<br /><br />Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-89644551261117560552012-10-02T19:33:46.796+01:002012-10-02T19:33:46.796+01:00"When someone says craft beer to me,I immedia..."When someone says craft beer to me,I immediately think of expensive keg beer." Me too. But this topic is <i>so</i> tedious, you've all got me yawning ...Neville Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-17045333799145555482012-10-02T16:48:51.354+01:002012-10-02T16:48:51.354+01:00not just following what everyone else is doing.
D...<i>not just following what everyone else is doing.</i><br /><br />Depends how you define 'everyone else'. (<i>Double! Triple! Imperial!!!</i>)<br /><br />Brewdog, of all people, used to be very good at *not* going with the 'craft' crowd. I've got fond memories of Edge, which was a session-strength cask-conditioned dark mild - and a very nice one. Long gone now, of course. Kids these days.<br /><br />Philnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-35719477661559804042012-10-02T15:17:45.826+01:002012-10-02T15:17:45.826+01:00I also like the term artisanal as you can break it...I also like the term artisanal as you can break it into art is anal. Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-2150492666648959422012-10-02T14:35:51.728+01:002012-10-02T14:35:51.728+01:00I also like the term artisanal, suggests a bit of ...I also like the term artisanal, suggests a bit of thought behind the beer, not just following what everyone else is doing.Adrian Tierney-Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05421802854011395300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-45098751673432182092012-10-02T13:26:55.386+01:002012-10-02T13:26:55.386+01:00I'll stick to that on Friday.I'll stick to that on Friday.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-70502816882190062912012-10-02T12:47:52.201+01:002012-10-02T12:47:52.201+01:00Craft means "It costs more and appeals to pon...Craft means "It costs more and appeals to ponces" Simples. Next question?Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-78715761038269804832012-10-02T12:36:12.687+01:002012-10-02T12:36:12.687+01:00Ha. A trap I won't fall into. Anyway. I expec...Ha. A trap I won't fall into. Anyway. I expect it all to be rather amicable. Possibly.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-65874935108292982362012-10-02T12:32:48.633+01:002012-10-02T12:32:48.633+01:00@Tand
...when someone says craft beer to me, I im...@Tand<br /><br /><i>...when someone says craft beer to me, I immediately think of expensive keg beer.</i><br /><br />When someone says "cask beer" to me, I immediately think of craft...well, actually as I don't use the term that's not true, but I think of everything which Yanks think of when they think of "craft" beer. Of *course* cask is "craft"!<br /><br />Really unfortunate that this silly marketing term has taken off and that you lot have to deal with it now. Yet worse: it's hitting Germany, where the term not only has to be explained, but also translated. Though thankfully without British cask ale baggage.<br /><br />Once again, people, the term was conjured up to enable the contract brewers like Sam Adams and Pete's Wicked Ale to cash in on the then-young microbrewery/brewpub movement. "Hey, look, our beer's good too; it's also NOT adjunct-laden megabrewery swill, even if it is sometimes fermented right along side such swill."<br /><br /><i>Now he clearly thinks that craft is keg and that cask isn't and you know, in differentiation terms, I might well agree with him.</i> <br /><br />I suggest you don't, as it would get twisted around and end up in some "punk" marketing about how they converted even *you*.Erlangernickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09564871714656285737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-20386080171145127212012-10-02T12:30:38.033+01:002012-10-02T12:30:38.033+01:00JJ: this?JJ: this?Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-24557646932131097542012-10-02T12:30:06.714+01:002012-10-02T12:30:06.714+01:00Bailey: I think Marstons are very coy about how mu...Bailey: I think Marstons are very coy about how much Pedigree comes from the unions and how much from conicals. As I understand it, they are blended. Undermines the craft case, though most would call Burton Unions a craft system.<br /><br />The Hand Bar is the very type that will have its niche status compromised if your previous predictions come true. Nice good - chain bad? Nothing is simple I suppose.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-78750765385148176832012-10-02T12:13:58.933+01:002012-10-02T12:13:58.933+01:00Py0 said: "I think we should just recognise &...Py0 said: "I think we should just recognise "craft beer" as a marketing term used to inform non beer obsessed members of the public that there is beer out there that is very different (better? who's to say?) from the usual five brands of beer they get in their local boozer."<br /><br /><< This.John Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15471796457374078158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-39353040102191890632012-10-02T12:11:10.643+01:002012-10-02T12:11:10.643+01:00Brewdog is on at extreme of the ideological disput...Brewdog is on at extreme of the ideological dispute, hardline "all keg beer is undrinkable" CAMRA members are at the other, the majority of us are somewhere in the middle.py0noreply@blogger.com