tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post3035910416581164155..comments2024-03-17T03:33:54.427+00:00Comments on Tandleman's Beer Blog: Missed OpportunityUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-83347328317132300182012-04-10T09:36:14.753+01:002012-04-10T09:36:14.753+01:00Small steps Pete. I think we'll modernise thin...Small steps Pete. I think we'll modernise thinking one of these days soon, but our focus must and will remain real ale and the pubs to drink it in. Once we ensure there is no worry on that score, I think we can persuade people.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-78726115251340876712012-04-10T09:30:55.664+01:002012-04-10T09:30:55.664+01:00Well done for all your hard work Tandy, your posit...Well done for all your hard work Tandy, your position represents everything that's positive and sensible about CAMRA. <br /><br />I was just about to finally join until I read this post. <br /><br />I'm furious your recommendations were rejected. Anyone who voted against the perfectly reasonable position you outlined is an idiot, a dinosaur, a discredit to CAMRA and an embarrassment to drinkers of good beer of whatever sort - be they CAMRA members or not.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03011702209832734676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-45000571026719607612012-04-03T19:51:39.614+01:002012-04-03T19:51:39.614+01:00In a sense, CAMRA can be said to represent a gener...In a sense, CAMRA can be said to represent a generalised warm, fuzzy feeling about British beer and pubs. However, once it comes to actually translating this into hard and fast policy specifics, all too often it falls flat on its face.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-53945885914840162222012-04-03T13:19:26.717+01:002012-04-03T13:19:26.717+01:00You know I agree and you know what I am trying to ...You know I agree and you know what I am trying to do. Do a quick response and I won't reply. Last word to you.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-51456292807568785162012-04-03T12:50:08.943+01:002012-04-03T12:50:08.943+01:00I'm not trying to get the last word, honest.
...I'm not trying to get the last word, honest.<br /><br />I admire the desire of yourself, Mudge & Red for CAMRA to be something it currently isn't. I further admire the efforts you go to to make it what you want it to be. I like the vision you have for it. I just don't accept it is as we speak the campaign "for choice" that you claim.<br /><br />Of all the campaign objectives CAMRA has, minimum pricing is the only one the government are doing something about, and the only issue I see CAMRA types like Benner on telly for(he pops up a fair bit on ch4 news), so it really does appear the No1 issue. Benner bangs on about supermarkets in every issue of Spoons news too. Forgive me if it isn't the No1 objective, its just that it appears to be.<br /><br />But if you guy think you are in a campaign for choice, whilst removing choice for the poor, unemployed and those of limited means, pull the other one, it's got bells on it.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-68383643420746934912012-04-03T12:08:59.012+01:002012-04-03T12:08:59.012+01:00I don't know if it was passed, but wasn't ...I don't know if it was passed, but wasn't Motion 12 in effect expressing support for minimum pricing? It may be couched as opposition to below-cost selling, but if you are just plucking an arbitrary figure out of the air and saying it represents the cost of production it amounts to the same thing. There are plenty of alcoholic drinks currently being sold for well under 40p a unit that show a profit margin.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-83807626258023905082012-04-03T11:42:38.100+01:002012-04-03T11:42:38.100+01:00We aren't talking about the public here. In fa...We aren't talking about the public here. In fact I've forgotten what we are talking about.<br /><br />And your bait about what you very well know isn't the No1 campaign is just that. Very few organisations are everything that members want them to be. Just like life isn't.<br /><br />But you also know that.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-86802162549873353032012-04-03T11:15:58.870+01:002012-04-03T11:15:58.870+01:00I don't think you should care necessarily what...I don't think you should care necessarily what I think. I think you ought probably care what the public think. It affects the success of any endevour CAMRA attempt. I don't know whether the public generally like CAMRA or not. I suspect most have never heard of it.<br /><br />I appreciate yourself and other CAMRA bloggers don't support what appears to be the No1 aim of CAMRA and seek to defend CAMRA against criticism but that appears difficult when the campaign clearly isn’t what you all would like it to be. It’s not a campaign for “choice”, or any such thing. Whether that’s good or evil is putting it is rather binary terms but it isn’t good.<br /><br />Maybe I’m not nuanced enough, if nuanced is seeing something not as it is.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-34856830878074408622012-04-03T10:43:04.976+01:002012-04-03T10:43:04.976+01:00Cookie. I couldn't give a monkey's chuff w...Cookie. I couldn't give a monkey's chuff whether you believe that "CAMRA is a force for good in the world." I don't know if I think it myself, but in the great scheme of things, it isn't one for evil.<br /><br />You know I don't believe in CAMRA's minimum pricing policy, but you analogy is a fair one. I am still trying to get to the bottom of how we came by this policy. I don't know if it was discussed at the AGM or not.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-26214489434961768182012-04-03T10:35:22.783+01:002012-04-03T10:35:22.783+01:00A group that wanted to protect cats by imposing a ...A group that wanted to protect cats by imposing a higher price on dogs would in my view be a campaign against dogs more than a campaign for cats, Tand.<br /><br />I'm really sorry that I do not subscribe to your view that CAMRA, something you clearly care deeply for, is not a force for good in the world.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-59760199899180642172012-04-03T10:28:30.180+01:002012-04-03T10:28:30.180+01:00I do like CL's point about political correctne...I do like CL's point about political correctness mostly boiling down to politeness. I've held the same view for a long time. Especially about things *I* like people being polite about.Erlangernickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09564871714656285737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-70292069859513427092012-04-03T09:23:58.432+01:002012-04-03T09:23:58.432+01:00So, using your logic, a group in favour of protect...So, using your logic, a group in favour of protecting cats is logically a group that is actively against all other creatures?<br /><br />Your black and white way of putting things, while superficially attractive, is starting to lose its shine Cookie. It was enjoyable once, but try a bit of nuance now and again.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-11004788954787659192012-04-03T09:16:58.080+01:002012-04-03T09:16:58.080+01:00I take it you are in the self delusion camp then T...I take it you are in the self delusion camp then Tand & Red? <br /><br />I mean it as no insult. I think you are a decent chap. My experiences of CAMRA beer festivals leads me to the opinion that CAMRA volunteers are decent people. I might like to laugh at the few eccentrics but that does not dimish my respect for a group of people that put their own time into preserving a British tradition.<br /><br />But the reality of your campaign is that it is a campaign against none real ale alcohol choices. I admire your attempts to change it, but it is what it is.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-62100232222697866742012-04-02T20:11:32.207+01:002012-04-02T20:11:32.207+01:00Sorry, CL, but Tandleman is correct.Sorry, CL, but Tandleman is correct.Neville Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-91904777967622048662012-04-02T18:25:17.040+01:002012-04-02T18:25:17.040+01:00Cookie - Bollocks.Cookie - Bollocks.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-14327608348992761542012-04-02T16:25:02.294+01:002012-04-02T16:25:02.294+01:00"CAMRA, on the other hand, should be positive..."CAMRA, on the other hand, should be positive and campaign FOR real ale, and NOT against other drink choices"<br /><br />But it isn't. It's a campaign against any beer sold for less than 40p a unit. The money you sub up, the surplus for the free work you do at beer festivals goes into a campaign to enact prohibition on the poor because you don't like what the poor drink.<br /><br />Oh and there is nothing wrong with political correctness. Most of it is just politeness.<br /><br />CAMRA is a campaign against other drink choices. To pretend it isn't is either a wilful lie or self delusion at what you're part of.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-80951669811888213812012-04-02T16:03:01.066+01:002012-04-02T16:03:01.066+01:00In practice, of course, a lot of this can be done ...In practice, of course, a lot of this can be done on the ground irrespective of AGM motions, as John Clarke has explained. In the long run the policy may well just wither on the vine rather than being formally overturned.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-46943241147200488252012-04-02T16:01:13.886+01:002012-04-02T16:01:13.886+01:00We can all slag off drinks we don't like if we...We can all slag off drinks we don't like if we want to: our views as individuals about beer are our own business. There is no real ale political correctness developing here, which is just as well as I don't much like political correctness.<br /><br />CAMRA, on the other hand, should be positive and campaign FOR real ale, and NOT against other drink choices. Such an attitude is entirely in keeping with the aims of the campaign's founders, who all said as much during the 40th anniversary year.Neville Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-47562382354257329622012-04-02T15:51:10.666+01:002012-04-02T15:51:10.666+01:00One could say the cartoon you use in this post is ...One could say the cartoon you use in this post is negative and should be removed ;-) Of course, as it's an inward snipe at ourselves, I think it's perfectly acceptable.Rob Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14871887147718814739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-28905583352022259462012-04-02T13:17:24.944+01:002012-04-02T13:17:24.944+01:00My view is that it is a niggle that we can overcom...My view is that it is a niggle that we can overcome without disturbing the main aim of the campaign and that it will stop some of the distracting carping that goes on.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-86171491354612815112012-04-02T13:14:04.225+01:002012-04-02T13:14:04.225+01:00But to add my voice to the above, disappointed and...But to add my voice to the above, disappointed and sad is my view as well.Rob Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14871887147718814739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-29948282350252787942012-04-02T13:12:52.130+01:002012-04-02T13:12:52.130+01:00Quite why there are so many "That's a sha...Quite why there are so many "That's a shame" posts on here and the motion still got rejected is perplexing. It's almost a split between the online world and reality?<br /><br />>It's the refusal by Camra to accept that many people enjoy both cask ale and craft keg that will be its ruin<br /><br />I tend to agree but maybe not it's ruin, but contributes to it becoming not really relevant and very much just a drinking club.<br /><br />>I still don't see "craft keg" making the vital breakout from the specialist bars to the mainstream.<br /><br />I'm not so sure on this one. Personally, I class them in the "Belgium beer" category when considering something other than real ale and these beers seem to be cropping up more and more.<br /><br />Which brings one onto RAIB which I get the feeling is dying a death.Rob Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14871887147718814739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-12619301139159839642012-04-02T12:10:20.004+01:002012-04-02T12:10:20.004+01:00Sadly, the NE, and some of the inveterate contribu...Sadly, the NE, and some of the inveterate contributors to the letters page of Whats Doing seem to be stuck in an ideological timewarp. <br /><br />It's the same approach that has left many old school Marxists sidelined as they're still fighting the cold war. Indeed, there is some overlap between both groups of dinosaurs.Sat In A Pubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08123038980796000837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-48191135847861491302012-04-02T10:37:15.410+01:002012-04-02T10:37:15.410+01:00I agree with Coxy. Since knocking on the head my o...I agree with Coxy. Since knocking on the head my own daft blog and joining the beard club, the joy and pleasure I get from denigrating other beer styles is by far the best thing about it.<br /><br />For only 20 quid I get to tell everyone they are necking chemical fizz and ought to drink murky muck that makes them wince, I get to pester pubs for discounts and I get some Spoons tokens.<br /><br />Why strip me of what I consider a members benefit?Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-67195552038095591702012-04-02T10:25:50.822+01:002012-04-02T10:25:50.822+01:00Who are you addressing that to Coxy?Who are you addressing that to Coxy?Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.com