tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post5152294532764700159..comments2024-03-29T07:17:26.082+00:00Comments on Tandleman's Beer Blog: Not Such Dinosaurs After All?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-44898418057463469942015-04-26T10:44:44.308+01:002015-04-26T10:44:44.308+01:00I was really pleased by the progressive thrust of ...I was really pleased by the progressive thrust of the motions and their outcomes. <br />As for Technical stuff in CAMRA, watch this space. Things might just about to become interesting, with a new Committee chairman taking over who shares many (if not all) of your views on things beer, Tandleman.Nick Boleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-25944931572555094522015-04-23T22:52:56.924+01:002015-04-23T22:52:56.924+01:00doubtful whether the KeyKeg issue will have any im...doubtful whether the KeyKeg issue will have any impact on beer selection at GBBF where it is essential that the UK beers are in containers (i.e. casks) of uniform size. We've already had KeyKegs on BSF bars and, no doubt, this will increase.ABrewHaHahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03380577738378902797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-71409252268624593132015-04-23T13:47:23.096+01:002015-04-23T13:47:23.096+01:00Hold it in your hand for a minute. Or put it in th...Hold it in your hand for a minute. Or put it in the sun.<br /><br />Maybe this new colder more refreshing keg beer that doesn't go to vinegar quite so quickly will take off in a big way!<br /><br />We can dream.pynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-37317160396723515702015-04-23T11:44:48.647+01:002015-04-23T11:44:48.647+01:00And a very valid one Jeffers. There are quite a f...And a very valid one Jeffers. There are quite a few technical issues to overcome.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-5168297936521079532015-04-23T11:40:38.173+01:002015-04-23T11:40:38.173+01:00An issue with naturally conditioned beer in key ke...An issue with naturally conditioned beer in key keg is the method of dispense will invariably involve beer passing through the same remote cooler as the rest of the keg beer - meaning it'll be served at a much lower temperature than cask beer. Of course it's possible to use a line that goes through a remote cooler set for cask ale temperatures, but in almost all bar set-ups this just isn't going to be the case. Your keg lines go through the lager cooler, you cask lines through the cask cooler.<br /><br />Just a thought. Stonchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07001578598975666535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-26357983377259552582015-04-22T22:16:16.585+01:002015-04-22T22:16:16.585+01:00>The cider motion is certainly upsetting the pu...>The cider motion is certainly upsetting the purists in a big way: that's an understatement. Have you *seen* the Facebook thread???? I must be missing something with the cask breather debate because from what I can tell, nobody can tell if they are fitted which kinda suggests to me they aren't effecting quality. It's been suggested their use is far wider than CAMRA wants to admit.Rob Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14871887147718814739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-8440978281606777332015-04-22T10:39:04.435+01:002015-04-22T10:39:04.435+01:00Nice summing up.
The cider motion is certainly up...Nice summing up.<br /><br />The cider motion is certainly upsetting the purists in a big way. Would be good if they realised that it's time they wandered into their own organisation, but I suspect they will come back and argue.<br /><br />As Stono has said, by the detail of the wording, the key keg motion isn't as ground breaking as it could be. However, it is very cleverly worded to get key keg dispense out into the open in CAMRA terms while giving little ground for opposition. From here there is scope for much better understanding, and also possibility to persuade more brewers to go for keg conditioning and natural carbonation. <br /><br />The most ground breaking part was that not only was the motion carried, it was carried by a large majority. GeordieManchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03926305998637585626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-11821166589489657542015-04-22T00:53:56.840+01:002015-04-22T00:53:56.840+01:00just before everyone gets overly excited all motio...just before everyone gets overly excited all motion 15 simply asked for was...to investigate (and presumably come up with) a labelling scheme akin to the real ale in a bottle logo,so as to identify when real ale is actually appearing through a keg font (as that might not be expected) and not just the traditional hand pump/gravity dispense methods,and as was noted in the debate CAMRA already does that with real ale in a bottle, so its a not a contradiction or house cleaning thing to really ask for.<br /><br />the debate might well of headed off towards the historical technicalities of what key keg/key casks are and whether CAMRA approves of them, no doubt prompted by the Brass Castle brewer waving a key keg/key cask around, but those technicalities werent up for debate or part of that motion as far as I was concerned :)<br /><br />and yes awkward venue to fix a bar, in terms of space & temps,reminded me alot of a previous local to me beer festival venue I knew well, where you were always chasing the impossible to keep ontop of it.Stonohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02656315721111561414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-6325059036144316252015-04-22T00:28:53.134+01:002015-04-22T00:28:53.134+01:00I see the Sturgeonesque use of 'progressive...I see the Sturgeonesque use of 'progressive' to mean 'stuff I happen to agree with' has caught on quickly...<br /><br />Sounds like a sensible AGM on the whole, though I do wish people would differentiate between 'keykeg' and 'keycask' depending on what it's been filled with and how it's dispensed. Would make things a whole lot easier for 'normals' to understand. Ben Viveurhttp://www.benviveur.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-52678623166262442322015-04-21T23:47:05.249+01:002015-04-21T23:47:05.249+01:00There has to be a certain amount of live yeast pre...There has to be a certain amount of live yeast present in the beer for it to qualify as 'real', so brewery-conditioned beer is still out. (Unless reseeded, but we don't talk about that.)Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07009879034507926661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-20271173488766800522015-04-21T23:11:52.112+01:002015-04-21T23:11:52.112+01:00Sounds like “win-win” all round, which is good new...Sounds like “win-win” all round, which is good news. Sorry I was unable to make Nottingham; looking forward to your write-ups of the city’s pubs.Paul Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09678639237696546268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-15920069322385125332015-04-21T18:53:51.435+01:002015-04-21T18:53:51.435+01:00If Key-keg conditioned beer can be classed as real...If Key-keg conditioned beer can be classed as real ale would brewery-conditioned (without extraneous gas) beer also be ok if served in Keykeg? Does it matter that the CO2 is produced in the dispense vessel rather than a conditioning tank?Tommy Onionsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-50669509590792352462015-04-21T15:30:29.553+01:002015-04-21T15:30:29.553+01:00Bailey: Yes this point was made largely because th...Bailey: Yes this point was made largely because there is confusion among many about keykeg and keycask (they are the same) but keykeg has stuck.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-52651853013487721802015-04-21T15:01:13.912+01:002015-04-21T15:01:13.912+01:00I wonder if this would have been so fraught if the...I wonder if this would have been so fraught if they'd been branded as key *casks* -- that specific word, keg, whatever the technicalities, carries 40-odd-years' worth of baggage.Baileyhttp://boakandbailey.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-33870780126523889012015-04-21T14:26:29.633+01:002015-04-21T14:26:29.633+01:00DaveS
Keykegs are already in use at CAMRA festiva...DaveS<br /><br />Keykegs are already in use at CAMRA festivals as the Technical Committee gave them the nod some time ago. From that perspective, the motion was simple in-house cleaning. Anyone with a knowledge of CANRA's upper echelon workings will see it a sign of progress though as the Technical Committee have traditionally been conservative. It's certainly shook up the Facebook commentators who have been refusing for months to believe that you can serve real ale from them.<br /><br />Ironically the biggest policy change; the cider additions is probably the least important for ordinary members. It's definitely a seismic change, though, as the ultra-conservatives have dominated policy for years. I see it's already being described as a "betrayal" and "stupid beyond crazy" on the web.Sat In A Pubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08123038980796000837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-53550166543626876782015-04-21T14:18:42.158+01:002015-04-21T14:18:42.158+01:00It could be big for festivals - a chance to replay...It could be big for festivals - a chance to replay that stupid contretemps with BD a few years back but do it properly (and with a brewery that actually wants to 'play nicely').<br /><br />A couple of years ago on my blog I <a href="https://ohgoodale.wordpress.com/2012/09/17/how-hard-can-it-be/" rel="nofollow">asked</a> (out of genuine curiosity) what you would get if you took beer that was ready to go in cask and put it inna bag inna box instead. Would that actually be keg? Looking at it the other way round, would it have ceased to be real ale? The gas (outside the bag) would be giving the beer more of a shove, but apart from that would it actually be any different from sticking beer in a pin and serving it on gravity? I didn't get many answers - we all got a bit bogged down defining the C-word - but I think it's a question worth asking, and CAMRA now seems to agree. Which is nice.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07009879034507926661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-77414528857443524022015-04-21T11:48:49.816+01:002015-04-21T11:48:49.816+01:00Fair enough. I guess I was wondering whether I'...Fair enough. I guess I was wondering whether I'd missed some mass movement of real-ale-in-a-keykeg producers who are outraged that they aren't being accepted by CAMRA or something.<br /><br />Will wait and see what if any difference it makes on the ground. (Festivals?)DaveSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-23904922846467825012015-04-21T11:45:59.838+01:002015-04-21T11:45:59.838+01:00The change in the rules concerning cider is really...The change in the rules concerning cider is really very significant. It now gives an incentive to real cider makers to try to rival the non-real fruit-flavoured ciders that are proving increasingly popular. I've always thought our stance there was excessively purist.Neville Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-69263510842388591752015-04-21T11:39:41.766+01:002015-04-21T11:39:41.766+01:00Quite wide ranging Dave but I didn't take note...Quite wide ranging Dave but I didn't take notes you know.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-16793593465601007702015-04-21T11:36:10.014+01:002015-04-21T11:36:10.014+01:00Okay, so it was more of a "we really ought to...Okay, so it was more of a "we really ought to be consistent on this" argument (which is entirely reasonable, of course) than "this will vastly improve things for drinkers, brewers and pubs"?DaveSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-8960703357851122015-04-21T11:31:33.212+01:002015-04-21T11:31:33.212+01:00Largely confined to whether or not they could be c...Largely confined to whether or not they could be classified as valid containers for real ale. <br /><br />Swung by CAMRAs Tech Committee agreeing they could be.<br /><br />Usual arguments about good for low turnover outlets (such as craft beer bars with - my joke)Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-50191777224456583812015-04-21T11:28:54.604+01:002015-04-21T11:28:54.604+01:00So what (roughly) were the arguments for and again...So what (roughly) were the arguments for and against the keykeg thing? I'm still slightly confused by what problem it was meant to solve.DaveSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-40541979473744643442015-04-21T11:14:50.500+01:002015-04-21T11:14:50.500+01:00Interesting times - very informative blog. Interesting times - very informative blog. John Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02237613375289894910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-83740929670718818672015-04-21T10:19:25.160+01:002015-04-21T10:19:25.160+01:00I like it colder and with more condition likely as...I like it colder and with more condition likely as not. I like it sparkled etc. The usual stuff really, but I suppose I call that progressive as it is what I think.<br /><br />And we got on fine.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-1983932600992057442015-04-21T10:18:06.788+01:002015-04-21T10:18:06.788+01:00I'm looking forward to hearing more about the ...I'm looking forward to hearing more about the acceptability of keykegs. I would <i>guess</i> that has bearing on the export of cask ale, as well as simplifying "cellarmanship" for those abroad who would like to serve it. In short, could be great news for those who want to see more/better cask in the US and abroad.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02382641864599043915noreply@blogger.com