tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post6188846986621149660..comments2024-03-29T07:17:26.082+00:00Comments on Tandleman's Beer Blog: ApproachabilityUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-55968210440604118032010-12-22T11:03:47.829+00:002010-12-22T11:03:47.829+00:00PS. Mark - it's the drinking that is soulless...PS. Mark - it's the drinking that is soulless, not the living room!Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-32659080107898661732010-12-18T21:47:36.912+00:002010-12-18T21:47:36.912+00:00Hey, it's all good fun. But you're right, ...Hey, it's all good fun. But you're right, we agree on a lot of things. And if I misunderstood what you wrote, maybe I should read more carefully - it seems that I'm in the minority. <br /><br />And as for elitism, well, I still maintain that there is room for it all and like you, I don't like to see only trophy and ticker beers being written about.ZakAveryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01794154105596597019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-30344598199826966632010-12-17T22:44:09.986+00:002010-12-17T22:44:09.986+00:00"In the meantime I'll stick to easy beers..."In the meantime I'll stick to easy beers like Dobber, Steel City, etc"<br /><br />Bloody hell, Dom, there's a challenge for us if I ever heard one... ;-)<br /><br />Our beer needs more hops, note to self...Gazza Prescotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11834776854227668409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-82989294437219990142010-12-17T10:57:24.383+00:002010-12-17T10:57:24.383+00:00Dave - I think you are right and have understood t...Dave - I think you are right and have understood the point I am making. As for your beer, I am not a big fan of crystal malt as you know. Doesn't mean you shouldn't make it though for those that are.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-56213826470056115752010-12-17T10:55:07.462+00:002010-12-17T10:55:07.462+00:00@zakavery "I'm surprised that you're ...@zakavery "I'm surprised that you're saying I'm elitist. I don't think I am, not one bit. If anything, as both you and Phil (Oh Good Ale) have mentioned, your hackles go up a bit when people start talking about craft beer - one could call that inverse snobbery, if one wanted to be provocative."<br /><br />My hackles go up when almost all that is talked about is exotic beer.<br /><br />"And anyway, Carling is way more accessible than Windermere Pale. That doesn't make it a better beer in my book. To me, what you're talking about is one step removed from the 'beer for women' debate. A beer for newbies?"<br /><br />Not what I'm saying at all and why should you conflate "accessible" with comparative quality? I certainly didn't.<br /><br />"Come on, really?! The whole point of beer is the range and diversity of flavour"<br /><br />What I actually said "To spread the word about beer, (assuming one thinks there is a point to that) we need to increase the quality, range and diversity at the everyday level"<br /><br />Doesn't seem that bad an aim I'd suggest and agrees entirely with your point above.<br /><br />"You call it cheery beery, I call it objective and open-minded."<br /><br />Then why not read what I said a little more carefully? It seems to me that you entirely miss the point. What I am suggesting is that we need to bring more people into beer by making the range and quality available to most (not some) better than it is in most places as a way of getting them interested and seeking better things from beer. That doesn't seem a bad aim either.<br /><br />"Again, apologies for going off the deep end, but I don't agree with what you've said here."<br /><br />Actually I think to all intents and purposes, you actually do agree with the substance of what I say, but I'd postulate you are somewhat hidebound in doing so by challenging me on what I neither said nor intended.<br /><br />Still, it's all good knockabout stuff, so no hard feelings from me at all.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-88856598157686513072010-12-17T08:34:15.218+00:002010-12-17T08:34:15.218+00:00I can't help thinking this is being blown a bi...I can't help thinking this is being blown a bit out of proportion.<br /><br />The beer world is a continuum, there is Carling at the bland and highly approachable end of the spectrum. Somewhere in the middle is Light Cascade, Pint, Cumberland Ale etc. It then goes through White Shield, Jaipour, Punk IPA through to the crazy esoteric end which is niche and highly unapproachable and includes stuff like Bourbon County Stout, Arrogant Bastard, TNP, End of History and so it goes on.<br /><br />We need that continuum, so much so that I called one of my beers after it. Unfortunately Tandleman doesn't like that beer very much as it has too much crystal malt in it. He's not the only one who thinks that, and I see his point that all brewers should look to provide a continuum of approachability. The first rung of that approachability is down to the business model of the particular brewery.<br /><br />Sometimes the other end is really only for fun, and yes, to get noticed. Even BrewDog make most of their money out of Trashy, 5am and Punk.<br /><br />Some breweries start at C2 and end up at the rather tasty P2 and Celebration Shield. (coming soon to a blog post near you) Others start at the likes of Light Cascade, which you'll be pleased to know will continue, as will Continuum, the clue is in the name, and haven't yet got to their end point.<br /><br />I like the fact that there is a very clear overlap.<br /><br />I'd like to think that ties together the views on here, but perhaps that is asking too much.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-85683378424334506232010-12-16T12:25:23.369+00:002010-12-16T12:25:23.369+00:00I meant in terms of drinking habits not to what th...I meant in terms of drinking habits not to what they drink , ie they slowly enjoy their strong lagers rather than guzzle like usCoxynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-41535099602740428802010-12-15T08:06:56.666+00:002010-12-15T08:06:56.666+00:00How was the Phoenix do, or did I just dream that?How was the Phoenix do, or did I just dream that?Erlangernickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09564871714656285737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-31449562525307004942010-12-14T22:41:03.895+00:002010-12-14T22:41:03.895+00:00one could call that inverse snobbery, if one wante...<i>one could call that inverse snobbery, if one wanted to be provocative. </i><br /><br />Not wanting to be provoked, I'd rather stay out of this one (although I agree with a lot of the post, and don't believe in inverse snobbery.)Philhttp://ohgoodale.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-55736870904970300142010-12-14T20:08:18.250+00:002010-12-14T20:08:18.250+00:00OK, OK, I was a bit hostile, and for that I'm ...OK, OK, I was a bit hostile, and for that I'm sorry. Hostile, passionate, whatever, the internet is a sterlie medium in which to throw that sort of attitude around. A pub table would be much better.<br /><br />"Your second point gets at why I wrote it. You appear to be saying that we shouldn't comment on them either. That only the exotic deserves attention and the mainstream can just keep its head down and let the real brewing that matters shine. I don't think so, but then maybe I'm a touch less elitist about it all?"<br /><br />I'm surprised that you're saying I'm elitist. I don't think I am, not one bit. If anything, as both you and Phil (Oh Good Ale) have mentioned, your hackles go up a bit when people start talking about craft beer - one could call that inverse snobbery, if one wanted to be provocative. <br /><br />It's perfectly possible to be anti-elitist while at the same time enjoying a wide variety of beers, from Carling to Brooklyn Lager to Pliny the Elder. If you can point to anywhere that I've said otherwise, I'll post a tasting video of me drinking a can of Morrissons Value lager (from a drinking vessel of your choosing).<br /><br />Out of curiosity, I've put up a tag list at the bottom of my blog. Yes, like you, I rolled my eyes when I saw BrewDog at the top, but say what you like about them, they are bringing something fresh to the table, and it's not high %abv beers that are getting them into supermarkets - it's the tasty beer. Supermarket buyers are very hard to please.<br /><br />Move down the list - sure, there's DFH, Birra del Borgo, Baladin, De Molen and Stone. But there's also Fuller's, Badger/H&W, Greene King, brown beer, Sharp's and Crown. So when you say "You seem inordinately protective of one aspect of British Brewing, but remarkably unconcerned about the rest", perhaps unsurprisingly, I don't agree. <br /><br />And anyway, Carling is way more accessible than Windermere Pale. That doesn't make it a better beer in my book. To me, what you're talking about is one step removed from the 'beer for women' debate. A beer for newbies? Come on, really?! The whole point of beer is the range and diversity of flavour, and that's why I am try to be as enthusiastic as Greene King IPA as I am about Deschutes The Dissident. Well, maybe not AS enthusiastic, but you take my point. You call it cheery beery, I call it objective and open-minded.<br /><br />Again, apologies for going off the deep end, but I don't agree with what you've said here.ZakAveryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01794154105596597019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-63766983975381376382010-12-14T14:37:45.734+00:002010-12-14T14:37:45.734+00:00Well "accessible" is in the second line....Well "accessible" is in the second line. <br /><br />"It seems to me that some people have got the wrong end of your argument."<br /><br />Rather!Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-39617368720045215422010-12-14T14:33:30.493+00:002010-12-14T14:33:30.493+00:00Oh well, at least I got your point and, for what i...Oh well, at least I got your point and, for what it’s worth, agree with it. In the cold, sober, light of day, perhaps you should have called it “Accessibility” instead of “Approachability”. Although Zak doesn’t seem to like that word. <br />But since we’re not actually talking about a platform of bland beer, I can’t see why.<br /><br />To me it’s all about accessibility. Surely we want literature to be accessible? Education? Shouldn’t the majority of buildings be accessible? Nope I can’t see anything wrong with applying that concept to beer. It seems to me that some people have got the wrong end of your argument. <br /><br />Anyway, off to the pub now to find some accessible, but hopefully not bland, beer.Sat In A Pubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08123038980796000837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-26720319240055906482010-12-14T14:24:32.051+00:002010-12-14T14:24:32.051+00:00Thought you liked a bit of biff Kev? We all have t...Thought you liked a bit of biff Kev? We all have to watch out for the unexpected in this game eh?Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-23080618138334339572010-12-14T14:21:00.286+00:002010-12-14T14:21:00.286+00:00I love it when Avery gets a bit hostile!! Peter, y...I love it when Avery gets a bit hostile!! Peter, you have a knack for bringing out hostility, even in the most well mannered beer writers, bloggers. I have Avery winning in the second round with a strong upper cut to the groin.Whorsthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01784943453195129865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-11199481128904428442010-12-14T14:06:23.411+00:002010-12-14T14:06:23.411+00:00Stringers / Velky Al
Yes - interesting comments, ...Stringers / Velky Al<br /><br />Yes - interesting comments, though I've nothing at all against very hoppy beers myself. But it wasn't about me.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-16179729726707659232010-12-14T13:59:05.585+00:002010-12-14T13:59:05.585+00:00On the taste issue, this was a very interesting po...On the taste issue, this was a very interesting post:<br /><br />http://brewingreality.blogspot.com/2010/12/flavour-panel-christmas-tasting-around.htmlAlistair Reecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15929927359428659775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-22285968827126807372010-12-14T12:47:48.468+00:002010-12-14T12:47:48.468+00:00Coxy - The Belgian mostly drink lager I'm afra...Coxy - The Belgian mostly drink lager I'm afraid.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-85106534992967966662010-12-14T12:46:59.630+00:002010-12-14T12:46:59.630+00:00Your lucky to have such a great pub your able to v...Your lucky to have such a great pub your able to visit. Desperately bad pubs and the legal requirement to stay in whilst my kids sleep are what contribute to my 'soulless home drinking'.<br />I enjoyed the post otherwise.arnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046512935179787759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-33992014563243665942010-12-14T09:37:39.984+00:002010-12-14T09:37:39.984+00:00Of course, sensitivity to taste (including bitter ...Of course, sensitivity to taste (including bitter tastes), and the the taste effects of alcohol, vary widely in the popoulation - and with the experience and health of the taster.<br />I've often wondered what proportion of the fans of the <i><b>'easier'</b></i> beers are "supertasters" and how many of the aficionados of the more<i><b>'extreme'</b></i> are relatively "hard of tasting".<br /><br />Rather in the way that my tolerance of loud music might be related to my partial deafness.StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-25433604127985856172010-12-14T09:28:17.418+00:002010-12-14T09:28:17.418+00:00Dom. I'll have to wait until I grow up I suppo...Dom. I'll have to wait until I grow up I suppose. In the meantime I'll stick to easy beers like Dobber, Steel City, etc.<br /><br />It's a journey you know! (-;Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-5085272905115878292010-12-14T09:19:19.889+00:002010-12-14T09:19:19.889+00:00I think you'll learn to appreciate beers like ...I think you'll learn to appreciate beers like Hoppiness in time Peter, when you palate matures ;)Dominic, Marble Brewerynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-47404204951253295222010-12-14T09:00:18.164+00:002010-12-14T09:00:18.164+00:00There's nothing soulless about my living room ...There's nothing soulless about my living room Tandleman...Mark, Real-Ale-Reviews.comhttp://real-ale-reviews.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-60026406141554715162010-12-14T08:18:30.806+00:002010-12-14T08:18:30.806+00:00With the ever increasing costs of beer maybe in th...With the ever increasing costs of beer maybe in the future less quantity could be purchased and higher strengh or niche beers may be sampled more, the Belgiums are not that far behind us in consumption but have an array of choice mainly on a higher strengh than ours, but then maybe our pub culture would need to change , which seems unlikely now but with the £5 pint not long away perhaps. I would go for a full flavoured Hophead rather than a stronger Abbot anyday, I know which one I think is bland or maybe I just mean boring.Coxynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-16560855098588692862010-12-14T08:11:26.306+00:002010-12-14T08:11:26.306+00:00"You tried a beer that you didn't like. M..."You tried a beer that you didn't like. Move on, get over it. Just don't extrapolate that into a theory."<br /><br />You think you can't look at a situation and then analyse it a bit? I detect a bit of hostility there and throughout your response. That isn't needed.<br /><br />"Why does the majority of anything need to be accessible? Why do we need more accessibility? There are enough accessible beers out there - oceans of them are brewed and drunk every day, without comment, without thought."<br /><br />Your second point gets at why I wrote it. You appear to be saying that we shouldn't comment on them either. That only the exotic deserves attention and the mainstream can just keep its head down and let the real brewing that matters shine. I don't think so, but then maybe I'm a touch less elitist about it all? <br /><br />"It's like complaining that the cheese sandwich is going to be wiped out by the duck hoi sin wrap - of course it's not, it's just another alternative. If you like cheese sandwiches, then great, but saying 'I like cheese sandwiches' isn't saying much. What sort of cheese? What bread? Chutney? What sort? Have you tried, like MFK Fisher, wrapping it in cling film and sitting on it for half an hour before you eat it?"<br /><br />Your analogy doesn't work. It wasn't that I didn't like it. I've been around beer long enough (and know just as much about it as most) to not worry about that. The point I was making and you seem to ignore is that it was hard to drink. Not that it was bad or I didn't like it. I used the comparison to illustrate a point that's all. <br /><br />"These days, the gateway to beer appreciation isn't just wide open, it's been pulled off its hinges, smashed to pieces and set on fire, and there's probably a CRAFT BREWER using it to smoke malt for imperial porter."<br /><br />Your imagination and enthusiasm do you credit, but no-one is saying he shouldn't do so, just that we should sometimes give credit to the ordinary good stuff as opposed to the exotic good stuff. (That doesn't work if you are so uninterested in the day to day that only a porter from a busted gate ticks your box by the way.)<br /><br />"There has never, ever been a better time to be into beer, to be telling your mates (or the mildly interested general public) about beer, or to be buying beer in pubs, specialist shops, online and even supermarkets (well, except for when Glenn Payne was at Safeway). Why anyone - ANYONE! - would want to complain about that, and the enthusiasm it creates, is totally beyond me."<br /><br />I'm afraid if you want unbridled cheery beery, you've come to the wrong place Zak. My feet are firmly on the ground. You seem inordinately protective of one aspect of British Brewing, but remarkably unconcerned about the rest. My piece was actually positive about beer if you read it properly. I was looking at how this "wave" can be sustained and the future of beer protected. How we improve at the ground level to encourage interest.<br /><br />Finally debate is good and a small reminder to all. On my blog I'll write just what I please.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-37769706563014103762010-12-14T06:53:03.171+00:002010-12-14T06:53:03.171+00:00I'm with Zak, although this is a nice piece.
...I'm with Zak, although this is a nice piece.<br /><br />It's about choice. The Marble Arch is a rare exception of a pub that serves a lot of real ale but also one that is known on the beer geek circuit as somewhere to get good beer and different beer. If Pint was on the beer and I guess 3-5 others that were 5% and under then there's no problem. Start worrying when you've got everything over 6% and nothing under... We all know that few drinkers even touch the stuff over 6% anyway.Mark Dredgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11421095862178324693noreply@blogger.com