tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post6515474185460374076..comments2024-03-23T04:23:48.076+00:00Comments on Tandleman's Beer Blog: Sneery BeeryUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-83327121619922826212015-09-09T18:04:07.782+01:002015-09-09T18:04:07.782+01:00Never had bathwater yet, but the single-hop Mosaic...Never had bathwater yet, but the single-hop Mosaic pale ale I had the other night had a definite soapy edge to it. File under "not actually unpleasant". Odd, though - when I mentioned it to another drinker he thought I was complaining about the lines.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07009879034507926661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-17711488942435632472015-09-07T16:12:45.642+01:002015-09-07T16:12:45.642+01:00It's interesting reading all this, and as usua...It's interesting reading all this, and as usual I find myself sympathetic with Tandleman. (No I haven't been to GBBF but I've been to a number of regional CAMRA events including the Pig's Ear one and it sounds like not much has changed).<br /><br />It's interesting reading about the need for change, innovation, design appeal for younger people, etc. Until recently, the beer mantra was mostly opposite: pubs with wood boards are good, no fruit machines jangling in corner, no music. Simple food so it doesn't get in the way of the beer. Hand pulled beer, no fizzy tasteless keg (of the old style) or watery lager. Save the historic pub, never mind re-development. It was obstinacy of this sort that helped save English beer and, ironically, indirectly was responsible for the American revival now nipping at Albion's heels. But now what was stubborn and held to its knitting in a way from which we all have benefitted is seen by many as needing change.<br /><br />All power to rival groups and rival festivals. Let the consumer decide what to patronize, what to drink. I think many behind the CAMRA concept as it is today are betting that a decades-long movement to protect a historic dispense and taste range of beers has longevity. We will see who's right but the answer for those who want something different is to support the alternate organizations and festivals which promote something different.<br /><br />All this said, I think the modern keg beer should be included at CAMRA events. Whether it becomes the main focus later will be a question for the membership. I'd hope that cask ales always remain the heart and soul of the organization and that English-tasting bitter and other traditional styles do too, due to their gastronomic merits acknowledged over hundreds of years. Don't throw out baby with the bathwater...<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmanhttp://www.beeretseq.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-86266273541279190902015-09-02T18:49:02.479+01:002015-09-02T18:49:02.479+01:00Another disclaimer - obviously GBBF is massively p...Another disclaimer - obviously GBBF is massively popular and very successful in many respects and will probably continue to be regardless of whether they start putting on barrel aged imperial sours from UK breweries as well as international ones.<br /><br />On the other hand, it does seem like CAMRA are missing an easy opportunity to have some of these young trendy "craft beer" people inside the tent pissing out rather than vice versa.DaveSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-42234982846200679972015-09-02T16:43:41.002+01:002015-09-02T16:43:41.002+01:00I'm not particularly geeky, it just seems daft...I'm not particularly geeky, it just seems daft to go 100 miles to drink the exact same beers that I can get in my local pub. <br /><br />What is the point of a festival that offers that?pynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-19647975474650605202015-09-02T16:24:37.566+01:002015-09-02T16:24:37.566+01:00Re what's missing - I don't really want to...Re what's missing - I don't really want to make this about my taste versus whatever, but to pick a bunch at random it's kind of noticeable that there's nothing from Magic Rock, Summer Wine, Weird Beard, Moor, Beavertown, Wild Beer Co, Mallinsons, or Anspach and Hobday and rather conservative picks from Oakham, Thornbridge and Buxton. There's also potentially room for some of the more unusual stuff from more traditional brewers - the Fullers historic beers, for instance, or Adnams' Tally Ho. (Good to see Prince of Denmark, though...)<br /><br />As I say, I don't think that that sort of beer should dominate the festival, and there is some interesting stuff in there (notwithstanding that a really good best bitter is "interesting" anyway), but having something comparable to the US cask bar with a nerd-baiting range of unusual beers, beer-geek favourites, festival specials, not-normally-in-cask things and so on would do a great deal to improve the image of GBBF, of CAMRA and (most importantly) of real ale as a whole with crafty geeky types like me, Simon, Martyn etc.<br /><br />Again, the thing that makes this annoying is that they're basically already doing this for US brewers - I mean, they had Hoptimum and Ruination on cask FFS - so it seems daft and self-defeating to studiously ignore similar things from British breweries.DaveSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-42404215080830696862015-09-02T14:39:38.022+01:002015-09-02T14:39:38.022+01:00A really good and wide range of comments and point...A really good and wide range of comments and points from all sides, but one thing I must ask is: does any of this ever get seen by the Festival Organiser - he is the one that comments and suggestions should be aimed at as if he doesn't know what some folk are thinking he cannot take it on board - or give reasoned rationale why he can't/won't. Just saying.Nick Boleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-62329873384087081712015-09-02T13:55:16.689+01:002015-09-02T13:55:16.689+01:00It would be interesting to compare the proportion ...It would be interesting to compare the proportion of bitters and pale/golden ales at GBBF to those at Stockport and Manchester.<br /><br />I have no idea of the answer. If they're fairly similar, then either people aren't looking hard enough at GBBF, or it could do more to promote other beer styles.<br /><br />If there is a big difference, then the GBBF organisers may need to have a bit of a think. Isn't there a rule at GBBF of only one beer per brewery, which perhaps militates against a broader range?<br /><br />Having said that, it always seems to be the dark beers that are left at the end at Stockport. You can lead a beer drinker to a festival, but you can't make him drink what he doesn't want to.<br /><br />And personally I was very pleased to see Wadworths 6X making an appearance at Stockport ;-)Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-62116861382280782932015-09-02T12:16:27.221+01:002015-09-02T12:16:27.221+01:00The last two CAMRA-associated festivals I've b...The last two CAMRA-associated festivals I've been to as a punter, in Manchester and Stockport, were both magnificent - a huge range of beers, with bitters & golden ales balanced by milds, porters, stouts & assorted weirdies*, and no problem finding anything from a 10% barleywine to a sour cherry stout - anything your ticker's heart might desire, basically. It can quite definitely be done. So congratulations to, er, Tandleman and John C, respectively.<br /><br />Does the GBBF need shaking up? Don't know, never been. But if it does, the models to emuate are there (or rather, they're up here). Surely a fest like Manchester's would win over even <a href="http://tandlemanbeerblog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/you-can-only-please-some-people-bit.html" rel="nofollow">the harshest critic</a>... Or maybe not.<br /><br />*Consulting my copious notes, I had twelve beers at each of these - so 24 in all, of which nine were bitter/golden ale/PA/IPA.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07009879034507926661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-51276310208736487322015-09-02T09:46:37.113+01:002015-09-02T09:46:37.113+01:00We try hard at MBCF as I do see the need for chang...We try hard at MBCF as I do see the need for change. I also like to put into practice much of what I preach. GBBF is a successful problem though.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-8499013420733654202015-09-02T09:43:25.135+01:002015-09-02T09:43:25.135+01:00Tand - I'd add the fest you're organising ...Tand - I'd add the fest you're organising sounds grand, btw. Maintaining the core selection, while having a bit of keykeg theatre and meet the brewer stuff is exactly the kind of bone-throwing that can keep everyone happy.John Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15471796457374078158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-81360198400289598422015-09-02T09:40:24.272+01:002015-09-02T09:40:24.272+01:00"And is constant innovation really so importa..."And is constant innovation really so important in beer anyway?"<br /><br />Of course not - I never said that, either. But *I* don't need GBBF to reassure me that Harvey's Best is my favourite cask ale, nor that the London Pride is drinking well.<br /><br />Now I do think both should be represented, if the aim (as it should be) is to have more of a mass audience.<br /><br />But *as a beer geek*, I don't see much point going. Some people might think it a "bit of fun" to be in a big hall with their mates - to be honest, none of it is aesthetically geared to my generation, the food is poor (sorry, but I really think it is - aside from the hog baps - those are good) and the unreconstructed stalls all shout "UNDER 40? NO THANKS!"<br /><br />But as I've repeatedly said - fine. Have at it. I just won't go. No-one will die as a result.<br /><br />But the arguments I'm making are where this crit comes from every year. The structural problem from a PR perspective is that the majority of people likely to give detailed write-ups are precisely the people likeliest to find the event a damp squib.John Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15471796457374078158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-6542419977885646032015-09-02T09:35:54.052+01:002015-09-02T09:35:54.052+01:00John
Agree about Thornbridge and indeed others. W...John<br /><br />Agree about Thornbridge and indeed others. We do need to try and get interesting beers within a brewery's range. I don't know why we don't actually.<br /><br />And I'd be happy to give the hipsters a go. Again I don't know if they bid. You'll have more experience of that, what with rejecting all these tins! <br /><br />Agree entirely about the sexist T Shirts. I have tried to do something about that elsewhere with some success.<br /><br />I think things do change, but not nearly as quickly as they should. But I again return to the fact that it isn't just a festival for geeks.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-28570102493846226482015-09-02T09:27:36.164+01:002015-09-02T09:27:36.164+01:00And is constant innovation really so important in ...And is constant innovation really so important in beer anyway? Py compares a beer festival to a technology show, but the point about technology is that it can become objectively better through innovation. Innovative beers may be excellent, but at the end of the day they are still only different, not better than the ones that went before.<br /><br />Most people don't want to upgrade their iBeer every 18 months.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-83451459998080282132015-09-02T09:25:23.109+01:002015-09-02T09:25:23.109+01:00To be honest, I see the choice thing from a geek&#...To be honest, I see the choice thing from a geek's point of view.<br /><br />For example, I think 2012 or 2013 the only Thornbridge beer was Wild Swan. And you think - a) this is widely available in pubco pubs; b) I can pick it up in Waitrose; c) it's not the most interesting of their core range; d) could GBBF not have got one of the UK's most respected brewers to do something a little special for the flagship festival of the year?<br /><br />And that's before the "ooh, they've got XXX" - then of course, it's not on (which is absolutely fair enough, but not all of the beers are on at once). Plus the anecdotal thing of all the interesting beer being frontloaded, so if you go Thurs/Fri it's less good.<br /><br />But I think that's where a lot of the crit comes from in beery circles - because the moment you take an interest in beer and are used to *decent* pubco rollouts of cask, the vast majority of the selection is either stuff you've tried or have a reasonable expectation of trying soon.<br /><br />So you go to BSF and hunt out five or six really interesting casks, look around and go - 95% of this is irrelevant *to me*. And because that's the case, they then look at the food (and Tandleman, no disrespect, but the food offer does need an injection of hipsters - they're just good at this shit) and the sexist t-shirts and the xenophobic t-shirts and think - pfft. <br /><br />The difference *I* have with them is that I've written GBBF off as something that doesn't interest me. Takes all sorts, right?<br /><br />(Not that this has stopped me from having a view about how it might square the circle and please all - I just see no appetite to do that, given these criticisms come up every year and nothing much changes.)John Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15471796457374078158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-34371737093808837962015-09-01T16:53:52.209+01:002015-09-01T16:53:52.209+01:00*smile* - that's akin to the pointy haired bos...*smile* - that's akin to the pointy haired boss asking Dilbert to tell him all of the unforeseen problems at the start of the project Rob Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14871887147718814739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-67644056158486489162015-09-01T16:38:46.211+01:002015-09-01T16:38:46.211+01:00Well, not that I want to get too involved in this ...Well, not that I want to get too involved in this side track, but which breweries and beers were missing that you'd like to see?<br />Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-7069190254420929042015-09-01T16:29:39.253+01:002015-09-01T16:29:39.253+01:00I don't know either. But even if they don'...I don't know either. But even if they don't then you imagine they might be more swayed if the selection did something other than confirm their prejudices.<br /><br />To put it another other way, I can see the point about GBBF being at least partly a celebration of the great ordinary British pint and for making nice cask beers central to a fun social event. But given that they can square that with having foreign beer bars stacked high with rare, obscure, strong, exotic stuff, from double IPAs to lambics, from rauchbiers to sour imperial stouts, showcasing the incredible diversity of foreign (mostly) bottled beer, why not do the same for the stuff that they're actually meant to be campaigning for, ie British real ales? It just seems totally illogical.DaveSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-37894973533572137382015-09-01T16:15:54.860+01:002015-09-01T16:15:54.860+01:00I do, generally, drink cask, but surely the opport...I do, generally, drink cask, but surely the opportunity to try something you don't get every other week of the year in your local pub vs a load of stuff you do, is just overwhelmingly tempting?<br /><br />I guess its just a bit of an issue that the majority of new and exciting developments in British brewing tend to work better in keg. pynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-62024477993979966642015-09-01T16:03:24.162+01:002015-09-01T16:03:24.162+01:00Do any of them drink cask by preference? One doesn...Do any of them drink cask by preference? One doesn't know really.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-13444554079425360192015-09-01T15:34:41.112+01:002015-09-01T15:34:41.112+01:00To put it another way, doesn't it seem a bit s...To put it another way, doesn't it seem a bit sad that at an event which is (presumably) meant to celebrate and promote British cask ale, it's a running joke that you can find all the beer writers hanging around the foreign beer bars?DaveSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-55623654560224035762015-09-01T15:12:44.016+01:002015-09-01T15:12:44.016+01:00Jeff - couldn't agree more about that bloody t...Jeff - couldn't agree more about that bloody t-shirt stall. Why they have it back year after year I really don't know. It's been at the Manchester event in recent years as well (and willfully ignored instructions about not selling sexist t-shirts) - be nice to think it'll get the chop for 2016.John Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-9540144531696410622015-09-01T15:02:06.754+01:002015-09-01T15:02:06.754+01:00I don't think anyone is suggesting wall-to-wal...I don't think anyone is suggesting wall-to-wall crafty madness but some of the ideas are worth investigating. Such as much higher engagement of the brewers at the festival. The idea of reducing choice infers to me "higher quality" which is a tricky one. Maybe an aim to make GBBF somewhere where breweries put on their unusual & special beers. Maybe launch a beer like the very successful "New beers" bar at Stockport. There are positives to be inferred from there if one is a mind set to explore them.Rob Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14871887147718814739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-26861205491552426502015-09-01T14:56:48.989+01:002015-09-01T14:56:48.989+01:00This is what is wrong with the GBBF, and I will ne...<br /><a href="https://flic.kr/p/xNt56h" rel="nofollow">This</a> is what is wrong with the GBBF, and I will never tire of saying it. Jeff Pickthallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06343140031285101096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-42623690271504087392015-09-01T14:34:11.430+01:002015-09-01T14:34:11.430+01:00Rather ironic is it not that the heading on What&#...Rather ironic is it not that the heading on What's Brewing this month is "More choice than even at fest" ;-)Rob Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14871887147718814739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-37494799596627854752015-09-01T14:32:06.708+01:002015-09-01T14:32:06.708+01:00And to re-iterate, I don't think that GBBF nee...And to re-iterate, I don't think that GBBF needs wall-to-wall crafty madness, just that the current diversity of British cask ale needs to be a more visible part of it.<br />DaveSnoreply@blogger.com