tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post2107358617990611279..comments2024-03-29T07:17:26.082+00:00Comments on Tandleman's Beer Blog: Nothing Ever Happens?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-73328391552626278442010-05-26T12:36:50.770+01:002010-05-26T12:36:50.770+01:00Why don't you start a blog then Gazza, instead...Why don't you start a blog then Gazza, instead of wasting your time with idiots like Tim?Rob Sterowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870233673933087794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-75972340298687306102010-05-22T11:23:56.703+01:002010-05-22T11:23:56.703+01:00So sparklers blow then. Fair enough.
Actually, m...So sparklers blow then. Fair enough.<br /><br />Actually, my 5 days in Lancashier and thereabouts last August turned me back around to not disliking them. I had no beer which I found to have suffered from the sparkling. I'm not sure what to make of that.<br /><br />We'll see how it goes in Oxford, Wales, and Liverpool in a few weeks though.Erlangernickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09564871714656285737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-34213031807108575422010-05-20T19:30:39.830+01:002010-05-20T19:30:39.830+01:00I'm sure you know where to go for *punk* beer ...I'm sure you know where to go for *punk* beer Gazza ;-)Mark, Real-Ale-Reviews.comhttp://real-ale-reviews.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-18963296434104061572010-05-20T12:17:52.214+01:002010-05-20T12:17:52.214+01:00I've been saying this very thing for a long ti...I've been saying this very thing for a long time now and it's getting worse; "cheery beery" I call it and it's a nasty disease.<br /><br />There's too many so-called "pros" around who may or may not (depending on your opinions) write well and with authority about beer, and these people tend to grab all the headlines and attention leaving IMO much better informed and experienced writers to scrabble for the crumbs or attention that's not lavished on these big names.<br /><br />But, and here's my main point, many of these big names are relative newcomers who don't seem to have a lot of experience about beer in general or seem fixated on certain areas; for example, reading some of P&S's output makes me want to punch the screen at his obvious lack of beery experience and knowledge plus the attempted cover-up of said lack by flowery prose, and Pete Brown's bizarre obsession with the piss-poor beers at the Bass Museum (oh, sorry, Coors).<br /><br />Then we have everyone in an ever-repeating circle name-checking and back-slapping... it's rather quite nauseous from where I'm sitting and I don't think it does the beer writing world any good at all.<br /><br />With the exception of the "big names" who have always peddled to the mass-market and their corporate sponsors beer writing had a decent phase of reactionary anti-establishment, anti-camra and anti-big brewer until fairly recently but, with all attention being concentrated ever more on those in "the circle", the whole thing seems to be degrading into one big CV for writing contracts and this, by it's very nature, means the output is much more mainstream and less opinionated.<br /><br />I'm not a "proper" beer writer and have no intention to become one, I'm just an opinionated scooper who likes to voice it... ;-)Gazza Prescotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11834776854227668409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-56498206509525474512010-05-19T23:10:05.937+01:002010-05-19T23:10:05.937+01:00Erlangernick, I have to take issue with you, spark...Erlangernick, I have to take issue with you, sparklers don't actually suck. It is more of a forced blowing rather than a suck. Hence the ice cream effect. Have a nice day!Paul Garrardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06393405914271508860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-77249657777599630932010-05-19T14:55:20.237+01:002010-05-19T14:55:20.237+01:00Well, you've made a start. I've read it! W...Well, you've made a start. I've read it! Welcome.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-45092756565770986882010-05-19T14:19:07.330+01:002010-05-19T14:19:07.330+01:00I am relatively new to reading blogs and extremely...I am relatively new to reading blogs and extremely new to writing a blog so I wouldn't know how they have evolved over time but I do feel there is a rich diversity to read from. My only problem is working how to get my people to read my blog!<br /><br />http://beerdemon.blogspot.com/DJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03289287301524705994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-33586793509237615682010-05-19T10:47:08.433+01:002010-05-19T10:47:08.433+01:00Sparklers suck.Sparklers suck.Erlangernickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09564871714656285737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-14023534936873534862010-05-19T08:17:09.237+01:002010-05-19T08:17:09.237+01:00@markdredege: Can't disagree with a word of th...@markdredege: Can't disagree with a word of that.<br /><br />@paul: I must work on my brevity<br /><br />@jefffrane: It is about enjoyment. WhenI stop enjoying it, I'll stop doing it, but I do like comments, though I appreciate you can't expect them all the time from everyone.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-84639331770949689752010-05-18T22:56:31.500+01:002010-05-18T22:56:31.500+01:00I view blogs like this as the 21st Century version...I view blogs like this as the 21st Century version of something once known as "personalzines", a specialized fanzine. You write about the things that interest you, or catch your attention, or the beers you've been drinking. The number of comments may reflect how "controversial" your post was, but one thing I've learned is that the number of comments isn't tied to the number of readers you get. A lot of people apparently read my blog and never comment at all--other than to tell me months later how much they liked blah blah, or my sister telling me my nephew wants to go out eating and drinking with me and my friends (means you, Tandleman), but does he write anything in the comment section?<br /><br />As long as you're enjoying the writing and the sharing, don't get too caught up in the quantity or even the quality of the comments. The busiest comment sections I've seen are on the most contentious of blogs (especially the political ones!). <br /><br />As long as you're enjoying yourself, I'll keep reading as well.jefffranehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17699992839260757505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-2466936343174406272010-05-18T22:04:14.941+01:002010-05-18T22:04:14.941+01:00Tandleman if it wasn’t for your blog I wouldn’t ha...Tandleman if it wasn’t for your blog I wouldn’t have known about Pete Brown’s ‘challenge’ as I rarely read what you refer to as professional bloggers. I rarely read beer books either as the few that I have read have tended to bore me shitless. I’ve been blogging about beer since 2005, not that that means anything. What keeps me hanging on in is the fact that my output goes in phases sometimes I have periods of great enthusiasm when I post a lot then there are periods when I really can’t be arsed. After sparse periods I often return with renewed enthusiasm. That’s just me. My blogging is purely selfish as I do it for me. It’s nice if others come along for a gawp and it’s even nicer if they leave comments. As someone who was heavily influenced by punk, have some sympathy for true anarchists and loves the surreal I like the ‘dear diary’ approach of many amateur beer blogs. I am also impressed by brevity. On that note I’ll draw this comment to a close.Paul Garrardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06393405914271508860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-41137047996274958622010-05-18T20:45:28.727+01:002010-05-18T20:45:28.727+01:00Great post. I fear this comment could become an es...Great post. I fear this comment could become an essay though...<br /><br />Flattered to be included as a 'pro', maybe give me a year and we'll see... I do it because I want to write. Beer just happens to be the topic which interested me the most, as I've mentioned a few times before. I've worked hard to learn about beer and to write about it and now I'm trying to earn a little bit of money from it, but it is just that - a little bit. I still do it for the love of good beer and the writing. But the one thing that keeps me going is the comments. If no one commented then I would probably have stopped writing a long time ago - it's what makes a blog. Commenting is very important - the distinction between journalism and blogging is that blogging asks questions to the reader and allows them a space to answer or share opinion - it creates conversation. <br /><br />I have noticed fewer comments and I have been commenting less frequently recently (I've had four back-to-back commissions to write on top of the day job), but I make a real effort to comment when I can. One problem is the volume of blogs now - I try and read them all and it becomes a time thing for some. <br /><br />I think Mark makes a valid point: some of these more left-field posts don't necessarily lead to more comments because they are a bit different. He's written some fantastic posts recently but the comments haven't stacked up. Reluctant Scooper is another - his writing is brilliant, but he doesn't have hundreds of comments to each post (then these posts don't really ask questions, they are just great pieces of writing).<br /><br />As for twitter... it's a different medium and I think it has been both a help and a hindrance. I've gained readers because of it, but I've been lazy on comments also because of it. At the same time it allows for separate conversations to happen. I think we've gained more than we've lost because of it.<br /><br />I do think that everyone has their own little niche within the beer blogs and they come together as a great community. It is insular, but it's a difficult habit to break - we can only hope to write things which others enjoy reading and want to comment on. At the same time, I have 90-odd followers but get many more unique hits a day and these aren't bloggers, so who are they? I often wonder how we can draw in non-commentors? I thought about posting something last week asking for just those who have never commented to say hello, but I didn't write it. Maybe i'll try this week...<br /><br />It should be fun and sometimes controversial, but we still need to consider the wider audience - I don't think negativity is good, unless it's constructive. But then I'm a dewy eyed cheery beery sort and you're a disgruntled old soak :)<br /><br />As Pete says, if you want to keep readers there then you need to constantly improve, be interesting and sometimes challenge, but it's also important to keep regular readers interested. Striking a balance is difficult.<br /><br />Now, when will we still blogging about blogging and just get on with bloody blogging?! Drink some beer, write about it, it's easy! Blogging about blogging is completely introspective and only seems aimed at the others, not beyond, unless there are readers who silently read all the blogs but never comment.Mark Dredgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11421095862178324693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-20574728696397399362010-05-18T19:47:10.908+01:002010-05-18T19:47:10.908+01:00Weblogs are introspective by name and nature, but ...Weblogs are introspective by name and nature, but there's an irony that 'the challenge' has got us all looking even further inwards and writing about the same thing.Mark, Real-Ale-Reviews.comhttp://real-ale-reviews.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-66246155460108080342010-05-18T18:47:24.215+01:002010-05-18T18:47:24.215+01:00This posting is interesting, as are most of the co...This posting is interesting, as are most of the comments, but what struck me was how inward looking it all is. If Pete Brown has turned beer bloggers into a bunch of navel gazers, that's not progress.RedNevhttp://rednev-rearm.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-60274947286615256392010-05-18T17:23:31.458+01:002010-05-18T17:23:31.458+01:00There's nothing redeeming about being a beer g...There's nothing redeeming about being a beer geek. Keep milking it!Whorsthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01784943453195129865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-11528418611430839762010-05-18T17:16:59.683+01:002010-05-18T17:16:59.683+01:00@petebrown: No criticism of you Pete. You are unaf...@petebrown: No criticism of you Pete. You are unafraid to say what you think and you write well. So more power to your elbow. Couldn't fail to include Dredgie, if nothing else for the most blatant ambition shown since Stalin said to Trotsky "I'm not sure I agree with you there." I only examined professionals to point out a degree of difference between then and now, I welcome all beer blogging if it interests me. There I guess we agree.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-1553896727158812562010-05-18T16:35:47.089+01:002010-05-18T16:35:47.089+01:00The invisible third fork is the inevitable plateau...The invisible third fork is the inevitable plateau of little influence with eventual demise into self-referential writing in order to maintain the status quo, I'm guessing.<br /><br />Or simply keep doing it for the fun of it?Mark, Real-Ale-Reviews.comhttp://real-ale-reviews.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-65675891381576799462010-05-18T15:52:51.486+01:002010-05-18T15:52:51.486+01:00@Pete, as you're a famous blogger & beer w...@Pete, as you're a famous blogger & beer writer can I ask whether with the fame comes lots of money and hot chicks?<br /><br />Looking at Tandy's diagram I see 2 routes to the end goal of potential fame but wonder whether it's all it's cracked up to be.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-21781543210855016882010-05-18T15:31:26.967+01:002010-05-18T15:31:26.967+01:00Agree with you on the disagreeing then! Not so muc...Agree with you on the disagreeing then! Not so much on the twitter thing. Yes, overlaps, yes debate lost to the depths of twitter because it wasn't on the blog. Happens occasionally, although by and large twitter debate was generated from twitter posts. Some people don't micro-blog instead putting their every thought to their blog, I generally split musing between the two, depending on how much (or how little) I have to say. I might not take that mantra to my grave but I find that the extended audience of twitter enhances our blog and ultimately, will increase debate on the site (if not immediately).<br /><br />Our audience on twitter varies hugely, as does it between bloggers and the rest of our readers. By my calculations beer bloggers make up the smallest group of readers we have on the site and there's plenty of evidence anecdotal and quantitative to show these trends (I won't bore you with it right now as it's my day job and I have more than enough of that there thank you very much). That stath pleases me because we set out to write to all sorts of folk (and we still do, even if some posts are written with beer bloggers in mind).Mark, Real-Ale-Reviews.comhttp://real-ale-reviews.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-41485731392869452932010-05-18T15:15:08.479+01:002010-05-18T15:15:08.479+01:00My views on blogging are just that - my views. I ...My views on blogging are just that - my views. I followed up my initial post with a clarification that it does depend on why you're blogging and neither I not anyone else has a right to tell anyone they should be doing it differently, or for different reasons.<br /><br />Interesting you draw the line between bloggers and professionals. Because my criticism, when I think about it, is twofold: lack of variety/interest; and writing for a closed clique of other bloggers, excluding the casual reader. On the first point, which is the one that's caused most ructions, I think that's true of much 'professional' writing too - it's not just true of blogs, so that line between pro and blogger isn't there in that respect. The writers you name check are good and so are several others but there is a lot of turgid prose in the trade press and other beer publications - some of it the fault of editorial stricture rather than individual writer's talent.<br /><br />The second point I'd make is that I was blogging - as a 'professional' - pretty regularly from May 2007. That puts me pretty near the start of things so I don't think I've been guilty of coming along and changing anything. I think the sheer number of passionate people has changed things the most - it certainly makes me much more nervous of what I write.<br /><br />Finally, interesting that you include Young Dredge in the 'professionals'. He is now getting some print commissions which is great whichever way you look at it, but he built his profile entirely as a blogger and only started getting print work after his success in last year's Guild awards. Yes, he did a creative writing course and his job involves some form of writing, but his dedication to building a role as a beer writer online proves that there's no glass ceiling - any of us are only as good as what we write. On top of that it depends on your ambitions, goals and a degree of luck, but Dredgie's well on his way to making a transition from 'blogger' to 'professional'. It happens in other subject areas all the time - why not beer?<br /><br />In summary then - if you want to blog for your own/your mate's amusement - nothing at all wrong with that. If you want it to be a route to a wider readership, fame, fortune (actually forget fortune, that doesn't happen for any of us), then it's important to keep things fresh, interesting, challenging.<br /><br />Good post though - enjoyed it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03011702209832734676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-87012591245819345752010-05-18T13:56:11.877+01:002010-05-18T13:56:11.877+01:00Mark. As you say I meant diasgree where you do and...Mark. As you say I meant diasgree where you do and not be afraid of doing so, not for the sake of it.<br /><br />Not sure I agree about Twitter. Overlapping audiences where the overlap is less likely to comment is my take.<br /><br />As for the diagram, I used to use it for "round the blogs" and thought it needed another airing. I "borrowed it from the interweb".<br /><br />Al. More or less what I think. I think.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-10069810521824043302010-05-18T13:46:05.972+01:002010-05-18T13:46:05.972+01:00By the way Tandy, lovely diagram Did you draw that...By the way Tandy, lovely diagram Did you draw that yourself?!Mark, Real-Ale-Reviews.comhttp://real-ale-reviews.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-55369514356632412782010-05-18T13:45:24.004+01:002010-05-18T13:45:24.004+01:00@Velky Al My thoughts on twitter: your twitter aud...@Velky Al My thoughts on twitter: your twitter audience and blog audience will always be different. Twitter will always serve a wider audience who are less likely to interact with your blog. They are more likely to be passers by and come and go, and more likely to be people who wouldn't have found the blog naturally. I imagine Twitter enhances readership and the fact they don't comment on the blog is a sign of a different audience who won't interact, rather than an existing audience who will detract form interactionMark, Real-Ale-Reviews.comhttp://real-ale-reviews.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-68508506250155391572010-05-18T13:39:56.308+01:002010-05-18T13:39:56.308+01:00I agree with you about the Twitter thing, I have 1...I agree with you about the Twitter thing, I have 160 something followers on there at the moment and less than a third of that number who openly follow Fuggled. Considering that they claim to follow my Twitter feed, I would have thought that they also follow the blog, after all Twitter is for me a support to Fuggled, I want more people to read it. <br /><br />I would like to think that the writing on Fuggled is better today than when I started, and I have to admit I wouldn't mind doing it on a more professional basis, but at the same time I am not the type to self-promote or push myself to the front of a queue.<br /><br />I can understand where Pete is coming from though, but I wouldn't say that blogging is becoming boring, but rather that bloggers don't think enough about their blog, using it as a place to do a brain dump of beery notes and thoughts, rather than presenting their knowledge and findings in a structured and cohesive manner.Alistair Reecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15929927359428659775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-68585886212161699272010-05-18T13:38:42.435+01:002010-05-18T13:38:42.435+01:00Your challenges Tandleman, imply people should try...Your challenges Tandleman, imply people should <i>try</i> to disagree. I agree only that people should challenge in comments where appropriate, but I'm not going to start making faux disagreement so people can have a bit of banter (I daresay you are not saying that either to pre-empt your response, but the point needs making).<br /><br />I agree that having professional writers blogging makes the blogging scene much more diverse and interesting, but I see no problem with anyone else blogging about what the hell they want. <br /><br />Interesting that ATJ points out he uses blogging to write about stuff he can't in his day job. For most bloggers the same principle applies, but for most bloggers the day job isn't writing. Given that, I think there's huge variety of style and substance in the blogging world and if anyone disagrees then you aren't reading widely enough. Nobody should change because a few folk are bored. Blogging serves many purposes and function.<br /><br />One last food for thought, it's been said recently that beer bloggers don't write enough varied types of posts. I throw it in the proverbial mixer that when different stuff is written, people have a tendency to ignore it or skim past if it's not relevant to their specific interests*, much like adverts on the TV. It doesn't always mean variety isn't there...<br /><br />(*I could probably muster some bounce rate analysis to back that up if I had more time in the day)Mark, Real-Ale-Reviews.comhttp://real-ale-reviews.comnoreply@blogger.com