tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post8633630270798767760..comments2024-03-23T04:23:48.076+00:00Comments on Tandleman's Beer Blog: The Beers of OthersUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-89554149934603387312009-11-16T19:53:52.478+00:002009-11-16T19:53:52.478+00:00You may be well be right Jeffrey, but why do you t...You may be well be right Jeffrey, but why do you think that?Rob Sterowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870233673933087794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-36996847536936340852009-11-15T14:20:03.040+00:002009-11-15T14:20:03.040+00:00Trust me, people don't want to drink mild en m...Trust me, people don't want to drink mild en masse. It's never going to be popular again.Stonchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07001578598975666535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-1863949754876488492009-11-14T19:15:14.862+00:002009-11-14T19:15:14.862+00:00A persistent irritation of mine is the lack of dec...A persistent irritation of mine is the lack of decent mild. I'm trying to work on it but no-one will actually drink the stuff - it's mild, 3.5%-ish and lovely stuff. But try to penetrate the image and it's the 'oh, it's only drunk by oddballs/the old'. Sigh.Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-77678430861100695922009-11-12T22:35:11.322+00:002009-11-12T22:35:11.322+00:00Seems to me that what most drinkers actually want ...Seems to me that what most drinkers actually want is mild, but they aren't prepared to actually drink mild. Which is a pity because a decent mild is a lot nicer than a dumbed-down brown bitter with the hops taken out.Rob Sterowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870233673933087794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-12067101674822611662009-11-12T18:07:35.898+00:002009-11-12T18:07:35.898+00:00Yes, good post.
Somewhat ironically, I think a bi...Yes, good post.<br /><br />Somewhat ironically, I think a big part of the market for smoothflow bitters (if my acquaintances are anything to go by) is people who subscribe to the dogma that lager is what idiots drink, but who don't actually like strongly flavoured beer that much either.<br /><br />In other words, they like all the worst bits of CAMRA culture but can't handle the tasty pints of ale that make it all worthwhile.<br /><br />I don't at all object to breweries making a straight-up brown bitter -- as you say, most would be daft not to, especially those with their own pubs to supply. What is annoying is pubs which have four of the buggers from different breweries on at once and then expect you to be excited about it.Baileyhttp://boakandbailey.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-66622904472971534012009-11-12T09:23:19.223+00:002009-11-12T09:23:19.223+00:00@Wooly Dave. Security of the brand image comes dow...@Wooly Dave. Security of the brand image comes down, I think, to consistency. Whilst decent cask beer is a lovely pint and is often the cheapest grog in the boozer it still is, in a fair number of places, nasty and undrinkable.<br /><br />You may very well make and flog a decent pint. Many don't.<br /><br />Ordering the cask is often a gamble, that may result in having to complain. Something many are not comfortable with.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-55801992557964245512009-11-11T23:28:54.910+00:002009-11-11T23:28:54.910+00:00Mark
I think we have a price reduction this time....Mark<br /><br />I think we have a price reduction this time. I'm sure it was £1.69 last time.<br /><br />Dave - Thanks.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-75693534867225926892009-11-11T23:23:03.720+00:002009-11-11T23:23:03.720+00:00Apart from anything, Landlord is and always has be...Apart from anything, Landlord is and always has been, fairly brown.<br /><br />It isn't actually that difficult to assess the term "ordinary drinker". Mudgie and Cookie made a decent job of it in their comments.<br /><br />I don't think tickers are the issue in this discussion.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-76330182574232355842009-11-11T23:16:54.921+00:002009-11-11T23:16:54.921+00:00Barry said "Landlord and Deuchars IPA aren...Barry said <i>"Landlord and Deuchars IPA aren't brown and yet have managed to push themselves into ordinary drinkers portfolio"</i><br /><br />WTF is an 'ordinary drinker'?? Do you mean as opposed to being a ticker? Sounds like an US (tickers) vs. THEM (ordinary - normal people). Why the elitism? Being a ticker is certainly nothing to aspire to, and is certainly not elite.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11979252489432311435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-25551563038553558202009-11-11T21:51:04.736+00:002009-11-11T21:51:04.736+00:00Oh, and good post.Oh, and good post.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-34695648354448538752009-11-11T21:50:41.904+00:002009-11-11T21:50:41.904+00:00The fact that they drink John Smiths smooth despit...The fact that they drink John Smiths smooth despite it being more expensive is what puzzles me. Security of the brand image I guess.<br /><br />Moreover, it has economies of scale, less wastage and less skill required to keep it. Why is it more expensive?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11319272987951077205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-26534854937266707132009-11-11T20:29:42.881+00:002009-11-11T20:29:42.881+00:00Good post, interesting topic.
My first point is £...Good post, interesting topic.<br /><br />My first point is £1.49?! WTF? It's £1.79 at my local. <br /><br />It's something that eternally frustrates me - why are you drinking *that* when they've got [insert good beer here] on. But I understand that people don't and won't drink cask beer. I want more people to drink it but then I am also an advocate for beer to be better, hoppier, dark, stronger. It's difficult and we are a small niche group within a small niche.<br /><br />What should brewers be brewing is a fascinating issue. I wonder how what they need to brew to make money and what they want to brew to satisfy themselves differs between breweries...Mark Dredgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11421095862178324693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-92217497993261690662009-11-11T20:14:07.370+00:002009-11-11T20:14:07.370+00:00I agree with what Curmudgeon says in his first com...I agree with what Curmudgeon says in his first comment. The vast majority like to play it safe and then have more of the same - many will go for a brand because it is a brand, and something that is available up and down most pubs across the land.Paul Garrardhttp://www.realaleblog.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-51530322081567843902009-11-11T18:00:45.985+00:002009-11-11T18:00:45.985+00:00You, downmarket? I wouldn't suggest it for a m...You, downmarket? I wouldn't suggest it for a moment. Good job when disrobed, you didn't get caught by the oiks on that fence.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-24597536035159607612009-11-11T17:59:16.339+00:002009-11-11T17:59:16.339+00:00Obviously Jeffrey hasn't been in a Spoons rece...Obviously Jeffrey hasn't been in a Spoons recently either ;-)<br /><br />Apart from the small minority of pubs that do explicitly set out to be cask beer specialists, I'd say the vast majority of UK pubs now stocked a smooth bitter of some description.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-20409860736913179712009-11-11T17:46:49.051+00:002009-11-11T17:46:49.051+00:00Come now, Peter, do you honestly think I visit tho...Come now, Peter, do you honestly think I visit those rougher areas?There's simply no need. I did do three months working <i>pro bono</i> with a legal aid firm in the LB of Ealing a few years ago. It was an eye-opener. Highlights included making a wrong exit from a tower block and getting trapped behind a high fence in a yard full of wheelie bins. I was so determined not to ruin my suit that I disrobed before climbing over.Stonchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07001578598975666535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-70670873873802460322009-11-11T17:41:14.960+00:002009-11-11T17:41:14.960+00:00Well of course I meant my small town of Middleton ...Well of course I meant my small town of Middleton (pop 40,000 or so, drinking population considerably less). That's why I mentioned "small town" - not the great metrollops of Manchester, where of course I am as unknown as an unknown thing.<br /><br />I can see where you are confused though. Manchester, no doubt, is a small town to you.<br /><br />On your serious point, assuming "in these parts, means Clerkenwell", I'd guess there might be more of a smooth drinking crowd in the rougher areas of London. London has some of the most deprived areas in the UK, so it would be a social blip if they are all scoffing cask surely?Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-81738028578196429322009-11-11T16:47:54.454+00:002009-11-11T16:47:54.454+00:00PS. Serious point that may interest you: I can'...PS. Serious point that may interest you: I can't remember the last time I was in a pub that served any kind of smoothflow bitter. They seem to virtually extinct in these parts, yet nationally the sale of John Smith's and Tetley's Smooth are, I know, still considerable. What this points to yet again is how divided the pub trade is, in terms of social class and geography.Stonchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07001578598975666535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-82604335153039730962009-11-11T16:45:34.192+00:002009-11-11T16:45:34.192+00:00Peter, I forgot to congratulate you on being the c...Peter, I forgot to congratulate you on being the cask ale guru of Manchester. That kind of fame must be hard to bear when all you want is a quiet pint in your local. I suggest you adopt the habits of Nero and go out among your people in disguise. Then you can bestow favours and admonishments where you see fit, rather than being hassled to do the same by an expectant public.Stonchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07001578598975666535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-47173180577306637422009-11-11T15:31:52.793+00:002009-11-11T15:31:52.793+00:00I may be biased as a scooper and so favouring new ...I may be biased as a scooper and so favouring new beers,but isn't it a case of the egg and chicken.That is you need innovation to give drinkers little nudge.After all mainstream big sellers like Landlord and Deuchars IPA aren't brown and yet have managed to push themselves into ordinary drinkers portfolio.Barryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05504703255217214600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-21234951706683346772009-11-11T13:52:11.971+00:002009-11-11T13:52:11.971+00:00Cookie - That's what I said isn't it more ...Cookie - That's what I said isn't it more or less.<br /><br />Curmudgeon - Agreed.<br /><br />Jeff - You are right about the demographic of cask ale drinkers and no doubt the fortunes of cask ale do mirror to some extent at least, the economy, though even in good times, there is a larger percentage of cask sold in southern parts. Like it or lump it, cask is becoming (or has become)the drink of the middle class.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-75508365495269260652009-11-11T12:58:15.492+00:002009-11-11T12:58:15.492+00:00Real ale is most popular among educated, middle cl...Real ale is most popular among educated, middle class people. That might be a bit offensive to some, but it's true. Moreover, it's disproportionately popular in the most economically successful parts of the country. According to Pete Brown's Cask Report, it's actually in decline in the North of England.Stonchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07001578598975666535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-17855034249838878802009-11-11T11:41:08.092+00:002009-11-11T11:41:08.092+00:00The "enthusiast" in any field needs to r...The "enthusiast" in any field needs to recognise that most consumers simply want a reliable, dependable, consistent product that meets their requirements (as they perceive them), so there is always going to be a tension between the enthusiast and the mainstream. There are plenty of examples in various markets of companies pushing their products beyond consumers' comfort zone and paying a price for it. Most beer drinkers will generally spend an evening in the pub on the same beer, and will happily buy a 15-pack of Extra Smooth, Carling or whatever from the supermarket. If you look across the board at your own purchasing patterns there are probably many things you buy week in, week out, because they do the job as far as you're concerned. Are you that bothered about innovation in milk? Are you stupid or narrow-minded because you aren't?Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-2698828138442737852009-11-11T11:19:32.045+00:002009-11-11T11:19:32.045+00:00The reason, Tandy, is that most people are not bee...The reason, Tandy, is that most people are not beer enthusiasts. They are not there for the beer. It is only CAMRA types that think a pub is little more than a tool for selling beer, and want it to sell beer they like.<br /><br />To most people in the pub, the beer is one of the lesser reasons they are there. They want a drink, but value the consistency and palatability of a known quantity that they know they will like because they have had it before.<br /><br />The drink is nothing more or less than a social lubricant.<br /><br />You are probably the only one thats there for the beer.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8629758183547510158.post-41187740386667234362009-11-11T10:59:40.596+00:002009-11-11T10:59:40.596+00:00Tyson - Gotta speak as you find.Tyson - Gotta speak as you find.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.com